Curse

Div · Jan 08, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Mesmers are weak in PvE. Strong class in PvP

problem with the buffing is: how the weak skills get buffed so they become usefull in PvE while not being overpowered in PvP.

From the buffs you mentioned:
MoR and ineptitude were too powerfull not so long ago. Energy Surge is the most used mesmer elite in GvG, shouldn't be buffed.
CA and PI are bad in PvE. SS: why .. ?

^ what he said. Unless a person has good knowledge of both PvP and PvE, it will be hard for them to balance skills.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 08, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Yeah, psychic distraction is good, I forgot about that one. I don't like that it locks the skillbar, but it's good.

OK, I'll give you that there are short recharge interrupts.

Kanyatta · Jan 08, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

PD is alright for locking the skillbar, imo, because if you're good at interrupting, you can get 5-6 skills interrupted and disabled in a matter of 20 seconds.

mystical nessAL · Jan 08, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Where did you see I was talking about PD? I dont care about it.

legion_rat · Jan 08, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

when did mesmers need help, evil damn things. I have believed for a long time that mesmers are one of the strongest proffs out there. You just need to learn to play them. Not an insult, i suck as a mesmer, but I have seen people that are sick good with them.

I wouldnt mind seeing small buffs but make sure its fair.

~the rat~

payne · Jan 08, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

e-surge is already way over-powered in PvE (especially elementals in HM) that would be the way it goes in PvP as well - total denial of monks energy = easy kill / quick route to a win! just my thought

mystical nessAL · Jan 08, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

when did mesmers need help, evil damn things. I have believed for a long time that mesmers are one of the strongest proffs out there. You just need to learn to play them. Not an insult, i suck as a mesmer, but I have seen people that are sick good with them.

I wouldnt mind seeing small buffs but make sure its fair.

~the rat~

I didnt not say they are weak. I only quoted peoples saying it. I believe mesmers can do insane amounts of damage, but when I join a team I would like to see sometimes " Do any of you have mesmers?" "Any mesmers up for XXX?" Etc.

the_jos · Jan 08, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

when did mesmers need help, evil damn things. I have believed for a long time that mesmers are one of the strongest proffs out there. You just need to learn to play them. Not an insult, i suck as a mesmer, but I have seen people that are sick good with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myst

I didnt not say they are weak. I only quoted peoples saying it. I believe mesmers can do insane amounts of damage, but when I join a team I would like to see sometimes " Do any of you have mesmers?" "Any mesmers up for XXX?" Etc.

Let's look at the average gameplay by most teams.
They take some kind of tank, let him/her ball a lot of enemies and they nuke them.
A-net's way of making areas more difficult was adding more enemies (look at DoA and Slaver's for example).
The tanking still works, only the groups are larger.

Now we take the mesmer (and the assassin).
They are good at doing damage to or shutting down one or a limited amount of foes.
Adding more foes is making life harder for mesmers, since they don't have a lot of AoE nuking skills.
If you put a skill like Spitefull Spirit on a mob, the more enemies are balled, the more damage SS will do.
Put Empathy on a foe in the mob and the damage output will still be the same.

Oh, but mesmers can shut down the monk....
Well, yes. But when I played DoA, the tank just balled him in the group and a monk under Meteor Shower can't really heal that good.
Same for most other 'elite' areas.
If you need to have a specific skill to get things done, run x/Me and not Me/x and take that one skill.

It is possible to make a team where the mesmer has more value.
However, it's not the kind of team any unorganised group can run.
Even in guild teams it would require a lot more work than loading some basic builds and nuke away.
And gain a lot of experience while testing.

RavagerOfDreams · Jan 08, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

eww mesmers get buffed a lot dont buff em again
besides mesmers are already overpowered if you use em right a good diversion/shame mesmer can ruin teams i kno ive seen it happen

Tyla · Jan 09, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

mesmers are fine imo.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 09, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

To you guys claiming mesmers don't need buffing: try playing one.
If you can't be bothered to powerlevel one in PvE, at least try one out in RA.

freaky naughty · Jan 09, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I believe that Mesmers are for PvP, my favorite profession is the Mesmer but they're just not built for PvE, I don't think we should buff Energy Surge but some of the other buffs would be ok although those skills probably wouldn't be too popular.

To be frank mesmers are a weak class and everyone who keeps saying "learn to play mesmer" whenever someone says that mesmers aren't useful in PvE should think about it. Hero mesmers should definitely not be compared to a human. Hero ones can interrupt casts as quick as 3/4 of a second, while on my mesmer I find that 1 second casts sometimes elude me. Mesmers do need a buff whether it be in their skills or a new PvE skill.

RavagerOfDreams · Jan 09, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

numa i play mesmer a bunch in ta and ra and i find that they are evil enough as they are. :P

Lady Raenef · Jan 09, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Let's just put more anti-melee into the game. Yeah, I love being raped by mesmers, buffs, buffs, buffs! So long as Warriors get a skill that makes them unaffected by conditions, and hexes.

gameshoes3003 · Jan 09, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Mesmers just need something that makes them more worth it in PvE.
I do not like the idea of buffing elites skills in general, why don't you actually look at the other skills which take up 7/8 of the bar?

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 09, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I propose Chaos Storm have a lower cost and recharge (around 5-10e cost, 0-10s recharge) and have a changed functionality of disabling AoE spells (and allow active AoE to be targeted) including spells cast on an active Chaos Storm's area of effect. Think how that could work. Enemy casts Savannah Heat? No problem, Chaos Storm and your party does not need to break formation.

anonymous · Jan 09, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

I don't think that's true... like... at all. The only instance I could see a Mesmer being a spike caller is an E-Surge spike or something (which would phail, btw). And "defensive backline" usually refers to Monks/Healers/Protters.

Maybe you should read the part that you cut out of the quote, see below

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu is me

Mesmers excel at shutting down the key members of the opposite team, in PvP, that might be the caller on a spike team, or the defensive backline.

You cut out everything that I bolded, try reading the whole thing next time.

DarklingKiller · Jan 09, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Imo, I think mesmers are fine the way they are in PvE. The mesmers I play with really help the team out with the current skills. They can easily combine the skills of another profession with the mesmer profession to spam conditions, interrupts, deal mass damage, etc.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 09, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Let's just put more anti-melee into the game. Yeah, I love being raped by mesmers

And you DEFINITELY need to try a mesmer in RA.

Pyro maniac · Jan 09, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

And you DEFINITELY need to try a mesmer in RA.

I know they're good

Like I said, I do think they need a buff in PvE. However it's hard to buff some skills that only affect PvE. If I had to make some buffs:

[skill]Chaos Storm[/skill] Spell. Create a Chaos Storm at target foe's location. For 5 seconds, foes adjacent to this location suffer 12...26 damage each second. Chaos Storm drains 2...12 Energy whenever it strikes a foe casting a spell.

Upped damage a bit. Compressed it to 5 seconds. Provides some AoE damage.
Won't see serious use in PvP.

[skill]Mistrust[/skill] Up damage to 20..80 or so. Damage is nice in PvE. Guilt > Mistrust in PvP. (if guilt is even used).

You're proposal to CA for example is just weak. Even after buffing it: why would you want a single target movement debuff?

I guess mesmer are still stuck to abusing the PvE only skills (where there are plenty of), Some inspiration interupting and maybe a SV/AV.